Mates of State Interview

Kori Gardner and Jason Hammel, the yin and yang of the Mates of State, have a language all their own. This should come as no surprise to fans of the San Francisco-based duo, who in the past year have toured practically non-stop, recorded and released their excellent sophomore album Our Constant Concern (on Polyvinyl), and found some spare moments in-between to get married. Call it the language of love, the language of music, or whatever else you like. One thing is for sure, though-- when you see them together, on stage or off, there’s no mistaking that they’ve got something special and they want to share it with you. I spent a very cold 20 minutes with Jason and Kori on a park bench in Boston learning all about it. Not to mention Captain and Tennille, sleep-barking, and Kori’s neck Kleenex. Read on.

Interview conducted in person by Josh Slobin, February 2002.

Names: Kori Gardner (keyboard and vocals), Jason Hammel (drums and vocals)

Band: Mates of State

JS: Let’s start with the new album, Our Constant Concern. First, congratulations-- I think it’s terrific. When you compare the process of making this album with that of the first one, what was different and what remained the same?

K: Number one, the engineer was way different. We picked Dave Trumfio because he was a keyboard guy. I’ve always been worried about getting the right organ sound, and he really was into keyboards. And we like some other stuff he recorded. Sonically, he just had a completely different mindset. He wanted to beef things up a bit.

J: He likes to experiment with different sounds, different organ sounds.

K: We had never been in a studio experience that was longer than three days. So we actually had experiment time. We’ve usually just gone in there and recorded live.

JS: Did you find it to be easier?

K: It was stressful.

J: It was harder. I don’t know if it was because of that, or if it was also the fact that it was our second record, and we were recording it for a legitimate record label that was funding the entire process. We had eight songs…

K: We wrote two in the studio!

J: … we were kind of rushed because we were quitting our jobs…

K: We quit our jobs, got married, went to Tahiti, went on tour, recorded, and then went back on the road. We never had a break.

J: It was kind of rushed. It was like, “this is the schedule, and there’s no bending of the schedule because you’ve got other things to do.” 

K: Overall, we decided after that experience that… like you said, there are so many variables, I don’t know what it was… we decided that we don’t really like recording. We like playing.

JS: And your concerts seem to have plenty of fans. Everything I’ve read about Mates of State comments on the excitement of your live show, which isn’t the case with many artists. What do you think makes playing live so exciting?

K: Our hearts are in it, completely.

J: Yeah, that’s the most important thing to us, because it’s what’s fun. Playing to a listener and feeding off them, them feeding off you… that’s where the energy is.

K: When you start a band, I don’t think it should be to put out an album. I think it should be to play, and that’s always what we’ve thought. The first ten bands we were in, we never even recorded anything except for demo tapes! So it has always been about playing out.

JS: Another thing you’re becoming famous for is your ability to get usually-stoic indie rockers up and dancing during your shows. Why do you think your sound, as opposed to the average indie band, gets people excited in that way?

J: Mostly, I think, because we’re pretty straightforward when we play live, and the songs are straightforward. We’re not going to add tons of instruments, or fiddle around before getting to the song. We start the song from the first beat, and it doesn’t stop until three minutes later. Here’s the song, it’s what we wrote, and it’s all just coming right at you. We don’t mince words.

K: And every city is different. Some cities don’t dance. They just stand there like the normal stoic indie rockers. I guess it’s just the type of music. There are a lot of bands you love listening to, but you just can’t dance to.

JS: What are the best and worst cities for dancing?

K: Portland is the best city for that. They’re always dancing. [Note: After the show, Kori admitted that Boston gave Portland a run for its money-- JS] And the worst, I don’t know…

J: There’s not really a worst, but in some places it’s just not cool for them to show excitement.

K: In the midwest, people don’t really dance. But that’s just how they are. We lived there, and we never danced!

JS: It seems from the new album that your arrangements are becoming more complex. Is that a direction you intended, and do you see your music continuing to develop that way in the future?

K: Hard to say. I love writing the basic pop song. But you never know if you’re getting more complex, at least for us. We don’t sit there and say, “let’s make this song more complicated.” We never really thought about it like that. Its becoming more fun and challenging, I guess.

J: We just write the parts and put the parts together, and then decide how it sounds and if we like it. We hardly even think about a song in its entirety until its finished. And then we’re like “oh, that’s a whole song!” We start with this one part, add another… I think writing a part at a time, that’s what makes it seem complex. We put parts together that don’t necessarily fit together.

JS: Sort of like Brian Wilson’s “pocket symphony” idea.

K: Yeah!

J: Right, and it’ll sound strange, but we’ll think it works. Or maybe it doesn’t, but we like it.

K: It may not make sense to everybody else, but it makes sense to us. And when I listen to the very first things we wrote, those songs are really boring to play. And we always want to have fun playing. If it’s more complicated, and we have to remember more, it’s more fun and challenging.

J: Are you talking about the songs before our first record?

K: Yeah.

J: Well, that’s also because we were learning to play and sing at the same time. You know, “let’s stick with this until I can keep my left foot from doing what my right foot is doing.”

JS: Tell me a bit about the division of the songwriting process. Do you both contribute equally to writing the songs?

K: Its always together. I mean, we’re always together, so there wouldn’t be any time for me to sit there and write a song and then bring it to practice. In some bands we’ve played in, there are different people living in different houses who have their time apart, and they bring their songs to practice. Whereas when we go up there, its just time to play! Like Jason said, we do a part at a time. And we might have a part for two weeks, and then finally after two weeks we add another part.

J: We never play music separately. Its always like, “What should we do?”  “Want to go play music?” “Yeah.” And then, “Want to go to dinner?” “Yeah.” We don’t have time to write songs separately… nor do I think we’d really want to. We enjoy doing it together.

JS: I’d think doing it apart would take a lot away from the sound.

K: I think so. Also, I was thinking-- the first record, we always did the melody first and then put the words together. The new record, I think, we were traveling so much we had more time to write words first. So that changed a little bit.

JS: Let’s talk about all this traveling. You said earlier that you went to Tahiti-- was that your honeymoon?

K: Yeah, that was the honeymoon. We didn’t play there!

JS: No playing whatsoever?

K: We listened to some great music there, but we didn’t play anything!

JS: You must have been glad to take some time off, between all the tours.

K: We made sure to make time for Tahiti.

J: We managed to get it in just before we started touring. 

JS: I understand you're now at the end of a tour.  What's your plan for the next few months?

K: Actually, we’re just at the end of one leg… we’re sort of right in the middle. We’re going to Europe for three weeks, and then we’ll have two more weeks of dates in the US. That’s the plan for now, and we’re booking a tour for May and June. We pretty much tour all the time.

J: And we’re getting the plans rolling to go to Japan in the fall. We’re going to take the summer off. That’s pretty much the only time we won’t be touring.

K: That’s when we’ll be writing.

J: Yeah, three months off during the summer.

K: Three months? It’s like eight weeks!

J: Two and a half.

K: He always exaggerates that, because he knows I don’t—

J: Well, we probably won’t start touring September first, you know?

JS: Its like school when you’re a kid… you always call it three months of vacation, but you really end June 15 and start up again sometime in August.

K: Right, it’s really not three months at all!

JS: Now that you’ve tied the knot, do you find that the lifestyle of being in a band is conducive to being married?

J: For us.

K: For us it is. I can guarantee that there are some couples who wouldn’t want to work that way. From day one we’ve spent all of our time together, and we’ve always worked out musically together too. I think its so much easier.

J: There’s something strange and unique about our relationship, though. We never tire of each other. I mean, of course, maybe there’s the little things…

K: Oh, really?

J: Well, let me tell you…

JS: Oh, so this is that part of the interview!

K: That’s the private interview. Single interviews, you could talk to each of us apart…

JS: Don’t think I didn’t think of that! Just you wait until the end of the interview. So, I’ve been trying to think of some of the great rock and roll couples. And despite myself, I keep coming back to the image of the aging Vegas duos, like--

K: Captain and Tennille!

JS: Exactly.

J: Hey, don’t rule that out!

K: Whatever-- I just saw this special on them and they were riding paddleboats together at like 60 years old, and they looked totally happy! So it works for them.

JS: Do you think you'll still be playing music together at that age?

K: I hope so.

J: I can’t imagine not playing music. I know Kori feels that way too. I don’t see why 60 years of age should change anything.

K: Unfortunately, a lot of the music sounds horrible when you get older, and hopefully we won’t fall into that trap.

J: That’s the hard part. You’ve got to stay in touch.

JS: There are a lot of bands these days that break the classic 3-4 person mold, like the White Stripes, Quasi and Mates of State, of course. And yet each of these groups has managed to develop a sound that’s at least as full as your average rock band. Why do you think this is?

K: For us, it’s the organ. Its got a bass built in. That’s the third person.

J: We’re essentially like five instruments.

K: Yeah, because we assume that our voices are instruments too. We automatically have bass, the other keyboard part, two voices and then the drum set.

J: And we’re both singing all of the time. Neither of us is like a back-up vocalist. 

JS: When you started off, did you both intend to sing?

K: Actually, when we started, we intended to, but we hadn’t learned how to sing together yet! A lot of it was just me singing one note and holding it while playing the organ. We were re-learning our instruments too, I guess, because in our other bands we hadn’t played drums and keyboard-- we played guitars. So that was a whole new thing too… though I guess we had played them as kids.

J: We both always loved to sing, and had sung in other bands that we were in separately. So it was only natural… “Hey, I sing, you sing, let’s both sing.”

K: Plus, we both have always… well, it was probably more me… I’ve always loved harmony, and that’s always been important to me. My favorite bands have always been the ones that have two people singing.

JS: How do you describe your music to people who have no frame of reference, like older relatives or family friends?

K: Oh yeah, we’ve had to do that plenty of times.

J: I usually just say its pop music, very vocal-prominent, with an untraditional instrumental make-up.

K: I usually explain what the instruments are, and they usually just say, “…Oh. That’s really weird.”

J: Especially friends of our parents or family, they always want to know if its hard rock, or alternative. I tell them its pop music.

K: But when you say pop to them, they imagine popular radio music, and we’re so not like that. So I don’t know. It’s hard to explain, I think.

J: I just try to keep it simple. 

JS: Have you been writing any new music recently?

K: We have a few parts, but we haven’t found the time to put them together yet.

JS: So we’ve reached the end of the interview, and now you’re going to get what you asked for earlier. I’d like each of you to tell me something about the other-- it doesn’t have to be secret or private, you can listen. Anything that comes to mind.

K: Oh, boy… let me think here for a second. There’s a lot!

J: Kori has this neck thing that she got from somebody. And, um, it’s really fashionable, she thinks. But it really looks like a Kleenex wrapped around her neck.

K: That was so stupid. OK… I got mad at Jason on the drive up here because last night I felt like I was looking at him the whole time and he wasn’t looking back. And so tonight, he’s supposed to make sure… See, there are parts where we have to look at each other so we remember what’s coming next, and he wasn’t looking up! I don’t know, that’s not really so good, huh?

J: The Kleenex thing was way better.

K: It was? Jason does all the driving, that’s something… I’m sure I’ll think of something better.

J: Do you want to watch us make out?

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On that note, I ended the interview and the Mates split to prepare for their show. But Kori obviously wasn’t satisfied with her answer to the last question. She tracked me down during one of the opening bands-- sans Jason-- to let me know that she had thought of something better to say about him. He doesn’t know she told me this, so if you see him, mum’s the word.

K: OK, so Jason talks in his sleep every night. And two weeks ago, he actually got on all fours in the middle of the night, in his sleep, and was growling at me and barking like a dog. That’s a true story!